"The Hare cud what the Cow would"

I was recently sent another atheist podcast from a friend.  These podcasts are notorious for hosting a very knowledgeable atheist host taking calls from well-meaning but uninformed Christians. It is very entertaining for the atheist audience as the host makes sport of the willing participant. This video however is flavored with a sweeter tone. The host is very knowledgeable but gentle when articulating his view, especially since the participant appears to be a young, sweet girl trying to articulate her faith.  I will post a link to the video at the end of our discussion. The video is slightly less than an hour long, so I will not be able to review the whole video in this post, but I think we can demonstrate how misleading they can be by using a few examples. 

The host begins to try and dismantle the young girl's faith by presenting some absurd statements made by the Bible that factually are simply not true. One being the rabbit and the cud. In a couple of places, the Bible list the rabbit as an unclean animal in the list of clean and unclean based upon the fact it chews the cud. "Nevertheless, of those that chew the cud or have cloven hooves, you shall not eat, such as these: the camel, the hare, and the rock hyrax; for they chew the cud but do not have cloven hooves; they are unclean for you." (Deuteronomy 14:7) The young girl tries to answer this obvious error, however, she is left having to concede the Bible is wrong, and the audience realizes the obvious, another Christian refusing rational thinking over blind faith. 

I came across this years ago but couldn't remember how the issue was addressed. So I did a little research and discovered some interesting facts. The Hebrew phrase stated placed the rabbit accurately in the correct category. The rabbit does indeed regurgitate its food like cattle, sheep, deer, it just uses a different process. The animals that chew the cud are called ruminants, meaning they have four stomach compartments. They swallow their food into one stomach compartment where food is partially digested. Then the food is regurgitated back into the mouth, chewed again, and then swallowed into a different stomach compartment. 

Rabbits use a process called cecotrophy. (Cecotrophy) Cecotropes are small pellets of partially digested food that are passed through the animal and are then reingested. As part of the normal digestive process, some partially digested food is concentrated in the cecum, where it undergoes a degree of fermentation to form these cecotropes. They are then covered in mucin and passed through the anus. The rabbit ingests the cecotropes, which serve as a very important source of nutrition for the animal. Although the cecotropes are swallowed whole and not chewed, experts have observed that rabbits keep the cecotrophe in the mouth for a time before swallowing, the chewing motion that is seen is the rabbit kneading the cecotrophe making it easier to digest. 

The translating of this cecotrophy process into the word cud is simply a result of the Hebrew word having a broader meaning than our English word, which is now narrowly understood only as the process used by ruminants. However, the Biblical audience of the time would have understood the meaning in its fuller context.  

The result in the end is the host misleading his audience with false information. Worse, presenting himself to this young girl as being an informed authority, leading her to think something false about her faith that was indeed true, was more than a simply misleading of an audience. 

He points to the absurd statement of the sun standing still, it is found in Joshua 10:12, At that time Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon." This event would necessitate that the earth stop rotating on its axes, which he points out would be absurd, alluding to the natural catastrophic results of such a thing happening. One can certainly understand the naturalist view of an atheist concerning this one, however, if one allows for a creator, it would be a logical conclusion that the one who created the earth in rotation could stop the rotation while suspending all adverse effects with the greatest ease. That's a no-brainer. This event is also relative to the next point made by the host if it is rotating on its axes. 

The host states to this young girl that the Bible obviously suggest that the earth is flat. Of course his audience believes his statement to be true which is misleading them, and he again is misleading this young girl to believe something about her faith that is false. Such statements are derived from certain passages taken out of context. For instance, Revelation 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. The statement "four corners" are taken as a reference to the shape of the earth, but the context is in reference to four distance directions, not the shape of the earth. Other references to the "ends of the earth" are said to imply a flat earth, when again the context is of distance not shape. The Bible simply does not, nor does it have a reason, for commenting on the shape of the earth. It does state, however, in Job 26:10 He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness. For that to be possible, the earth would need to be a sphere. It speaks in similar language in Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;. 

The host of the podcast makes the statement to his audience and this young girl that the Bible speaks of the earth as being flat. However, it does not indicate it is flat or spherical, certain passages taken out of their context could be used to support both views. These views are derived from scriptures that are not addressing the shape of the earth in their context. Reading these verses to obtain support for either view can only be done by conjecture. 

Hope this was helpful,

David 

Video Link: Podcast 
 

A look at Spiritual Gifts

The topic of cessationism vs continuationism is still debated in today's theological arena. It began as early as the second century with a Christian sect called Montanus. It resurfaced more recently in the past century with the Pentecostal movement, where they believed the Sign Gifts of the Apostolic age were being restored. In this post, I would like to examine the text in favor of cessationism and perhaps bring some light to that particular view. The text that we will be drawing from for the most part will be 1st Corinthians Chapter 12, 13, and 14. In these chapters Paul gives quite a detailed description of the Gifts, what they are and how they operate. Our desire in looking at these chapters is to examine what is recorded in the text as best we can. I would suggest you read and examine the texts in their entirety. So as not to extend this post into a larger than necessary effort, I will only present selected scriptures out of those Chapters, but it will be important for you to examine the text for yourselves in the full context of all three chapters. 

Paul states in Chapter 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." (ASV) Paul's obvious intent is to educate the Corinthian Church in their understanding of the spiritual gifts. Following further in the text, we learn that there are a diversity of gifts, and they are all given by the Holy Spirit. How they are applied and how they work may also differ, but it is the same God that works all things. He assures us that each gift is given by the Spirit to profit the whole church. Paul then breaks into a list of certain gifts that the Corinthian church were familiar with. In Chapter 12 verses "8, For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: 9, to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; 10, and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues: 11, but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will." (ASV) Paul here defines the gifts by giving them names according to their function. However, to know exactly what this looked like in the Corinthian church is difficult, we only know they were being abused both in their nature and their purpose by the Corinthians.  

He then finishes the chapter by addressing some of the confusion that was present in the Corinthian church, stating in verses "27, Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof. 28, And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues. 29, Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30, have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31, But desire earnestly the greater gifts. And moreover a most excellent way show I unto you." (ASV)

Chapter 13 moves us into an explanation of that more excellent way. Paul then sets a strong distinction between this excellent way of love and the spiritual gifts they had been given.  "8, Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away. 9, For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; 10, but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. 11, When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things. 12, For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known. 13, But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love." 

From these verses we learn this distinction. All these gifts, as important as they were to the Corinthians, were going to become unnecessary at some point in the future. However, the excellent way of love would never cease to be a necessary component of the Christian experience, in this life or the next. The point of disagreement comes when trying to determine when these supernatural gifts being addressed here actually ceased, or whether they are continuing today. Those who hold to the continuation of these gifts into our present day are generally referred to as continuationists, while those who hold to the belief they have ceased in our age are referred to as cessationists. It should be noted that cessationists apply their understanding to the Apostolic sign gifts, there are other groups that are referred to as hyper-cessationists, those groups will not be considered in our discussion here.

Some look at the phrase "when that which is perfect is come" and determine Paul is referring to the completion of the Scripture or Canon. Therefore, they conclude when Scripture was complete, the sign gifts ceased (Cessationist). Others see the phase as a reference to the Eschaton, or end times, and therefore conclude the gifts will continue till Christ comes (Continuationist). It seems that many who are proficient in reading the original languages see Paul speaking of the Eschaton. Our English translations also seems to read that way. Paul's statement in verse 12 does not fit well with the view of the completion of the Canon "For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known."

It is certain we do not fully understand all things as they are revealed to us in Scripture. Agreeing that the reading of the text in question could indicate Paul is referring to the Eschaton, the question still remains if he was talking about the gifts themselves or the revelations that were brought forth in part by those revelatory gifts, for it is certain the mirror of which we view the revealed Word of God through is still dimly lit and will be fully opened to us in the Eschaton. The point I am aiming at is even if the Apostolic Gifts were continuing, we are still seeing through the mirror darkly. Today we do have a complete Canon, when examining the idea of a continuation of these gifts, we must ask ourselves what these gifts can reveal to us for the building and edifying of the church that the scriptures, now complete, cannot? Paul does not identify the Eschaton as the point in which the Gifts cease, but the point when our partial knowledge will be fully known. 

We need to keep in mind the context we are examining. Paul is speaking to a Church where revelatory gifts are certainly operating. The cessation of those gifts is not the point of concern, but their misuse. The time of their cessation bares no relevance to the issue. We are reading from a period of time when Scripture was incomplete, the Corinthians did not have a completed canon to guide and instruct them. The revelatory gifts were necessary for the guidance and order of the Church, not only in Corinth but also the other churches being established, in the absence of the Apostles. These were all in their own respective order for the building and instructing of the Church. It would be a misuse of the text to place this necessity upon the Church today if you believe the Canon is complete and sufficient. 

In Chapter 14 Paul continues to break it down a bit more for us. In verse "1, Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy." In his correction, Paul certainly does not want to discourage the use of the gifts, but admonishes them to earnestly desire them. 

He specifically highlights prophesy as one to be desired. Paul proceeds and gives his explanation for doing so. Since Paul sees prophesy as one of the greater gifts, let's examine it within its context. The word Paul used is προφητεύω (prophēteúō | prof-ate-yoo'-o) Derivation: from G4396; Strong's: to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office. It is difficult for us to determine exactly what this looked like when exercised in the early church, but it would have consisted at least in part of the foretelling of future events. It was considered an office held by an individual, and when in operation, what ever was being spoken was being delivered by divine inspiration. 

Paul gives us a glimpse of what this may have looked like in verses "29, And let the prophets speak by two or three, and let the others discern. 30, But if a revelation be made to another sitting by, let the first keep silence. 31, For ye all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted;" It appears there were, at least in Corinth, multiple members who held this office, each was to judge what was being said by the other. We are not told by what criteria this judging was enacted. Most likely, there were multiple means of measuring and weighing what had been said. What was being said is identified as a revelation, which would be of necessity when the New Testament Canon did not exist in its completed form. Paul wanted all the prophets to speak, but to do so in an orderly manner. The result sought after was for the church to learn and be exhorted. 

This would of course only be a portion of the order of service. Paul gives us a little larger glimpse back in verse "26, What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each one hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying." 

When the Corinthian church came together, there would be a selected singing, gifted individuals would have been assigned to teaching, those that had the revelatory gifts would reveal what the Holy Spirit had shown them. Certain one's with the gift of languages would speak, and then those with the gift of interpretation would reveal what had been said. The Corinthian church appears to have been a bilingual congregation to necessitate the use of the Gift of Tongues. But this all was to be done in an orderly manner, each preferring the other before himself. The underlying motive of all being the edification of the Church. 

Paul concludes his discourse on this subject stating in verses "39, Wherefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40, But let all things be done decently and in order." Though foretelling of future events certainly would have been a part of the Prophetic office, it seems in the Corinthian Church the primary use of the Gift was the bringing forth of divine revelation. Certainly, the use of the Gift of Tongues as well as the other revelatory Gifts would all be speaking in unison and complimenting each other. These along with all the other Gifts would serve mightily to encourage and strengthen the church allowing it to function properly in the spirit of love and grace.

Seeing all these benefits one might ask why I or anyone would argue in favor of their cessation especially when the Scriptures are interpretable in such a way as to support their continuance? To put aside all of the fakery and false demonstrations we see in the Pentecostal and Charismatic circles, let's just focus on the necessity of their continuation.  

At the root of my objection is a concern for the sufficiency of Scripture. After the close of the first century the Apostles and Prophets now having delivered the Scriptures in their entirety, the Church began the process of collecting and distributing those writings throughout the Church. This did not happen in a day, nor do I suppose the cessation of the revelatory Gifts ceased in a day. This was all a process as the Church grew and organized in a unified body of believers all over the known world. 

Ephesians "2:19, So then ye are no more strangers and sojourners, but ye are fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, 20, being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; 21, in whom each several building, fitly framed together, groweth into a holy temple in the Lord; 22, in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God in the Spirit."

Jude "3, Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints."

With the foundation being laid and the faith once for all delivered, it is difficult to see a need for the revelatory Gifts. Some will argue that the office of Apostle and Prophet no longer exist, but the gift of prophesy as well as the other gifts of wisdom, knowledge, special faith, healing, miracles, as well as tongues continue with certain modifications. They would suggest none of these gifts are any longer revelatory, that no more new revelation is being given, but they operate in a mode that is less authoritative. That appears to be a redefining of the nature of the gifts, for the gifts in the Corinthian church were revelatory. If they are no longer revelatory then they are no longer the gifts that were operating in the Corinthian church. 

We have all had that unusual thought pop into our heads. That feeling when you see someone and you just seem to know something is wrong. You seem to be prompted to say something, and upon following though you discover you were right. But we have all experienced this only to discover that we were also wrong at times.

That time you awoke during the night and felt strongly you should pray for a particular person. Then you discover later it was at that very time they had some need in their life. 

Some Christians would want to attribute that feeling when it was right to this gift of wisdom or knowledge, even if in some lessor authoritative mode. Not to even dwell on the fact non-Christians have the same experience, but mainly we do not find this phenomenon in Scripture listed as a spiritual gift. Sometimes we get a feeling something is going to happen, we seem to have this strong sensation we know the outcome of a certain thing. When these feelings are confirmed accurate many Christians want to point to that as evidence for their interpretation of Scripture for a continuation of the gifts.  

Not to even consider Nostradamus, these feelings are so subjective there can be no certainty placed upon them. These feelings are not unique to Christians, but to human beings in general. To assign such things as the gifts within the Corinthian church seems to me a difficult task. The gifts mentioned in the Corinthian church were not subjective, they were not strong suggestive thoughts or promptings, they were authoritative gifts of the Holy Spirit. To attribute these other sensations to be a continuing of those gifts is a misnomer. 

Now to aim at the root, say I have one of those experiences mentioned above, I just seem to know I need to talk to a person about a particular issue in their life. What could I say that would be more helpful than what is already revealed in Scripture? It is certainly true that in God's providence I may be placed in a situation where I could help someone. It is certainly true the Holy Spirit may bring certain Scriptures to my mind that would enable me to give some very godly advise in a very timely manner. These things do happen and they are unique to the Christian experience, but they are not a continuation of the gifts spoken of in the Corinthian Church.

Paul instructed the Corinthians to desire the spiritual gifts, we should understand his command and the necessity of the gifts in context of that age. However, if I am desiring those gifts today, am I not saying I need something else, some other guidance besides the Scriptures to guide me? Especially when that guidance is so subjective and uncertain, even when we act upon it we do so with no more confidence than a non-believer does a hunch. Surly we are not to consider this a continuation of the gifts mentioned in the Corinthian church!

2 Timothy "3:15, And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16, Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. 17, That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work."

No where do we find instructions to be open to these thoughts, premonitions, and feelings to guide us, but that the Scriptures are sufficient. 

2 Peter 1:"19, And we have the word of prophecy made more sure; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day-star arise in your hearts: 20, knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. 21, For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit."

No where are we told that this continuing prophecy is more sure, but that we already have the word made more sure. 

Hebrews 1:"1, ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

God has spoken to us through the prophets, and in the last day through the Son, but it says nothing about strong feelings, thoughts in our head, or dreams in the night.

James 1:"5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.”

James does not say ask for the "gift of wisdom" but wisdom in general and you will be given wisdom, not a gift. 

Ephensians 2:"19, Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20, And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21, In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22, In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

I know first hand how harmful it can be when someone thinks that a thought or strong impression upon their mind is a word from Lord. I also know how frustrating it is when you are taught these kinds of things are spiritual gifts and you are left wondering when you experience one of these phenomenons if it was God or just you. 

I once heard a nationally known Pastor tell his congregation to seek for these gifts. I personally do not see a scriptural mandate to seek them now. Certainly, you are not seeking thoughts in your head, promptings, hunches, premonitions, feelings, or even expectations of special faith based upon such subjective notions. If you are going to seek the gifts mentioned and described in the Corinthian Church, then you should seek those gifts as they were in nature and purpose. Doing other wise has led to much confusion in the church today. Many cults have been established because someone thought they heard a voice in their head that was God. If you insist on holding to continuationism I urge you to do so with caution and by all means avoid suggesting such subjective means as mentioned above could possibly be considered as these spiritual gifts.

As a cessationist, we certainly hold to the understanding that God is sovereign and is not restrained in doing whatever He pleases at anytime He pleases. We hold to the truth that God still heals, works miracles, and guides every aspect of our lives in His providence.  As Christians we can be certain God hears our prayers and answers according to His will and purpose, wither that be healing or any other need we might experience. However, He meets these needs through prayer and fellowship, not through the giving equipping of some Apostolic gift. 

God bless,

David