Sovereignty of God in Salvation (Part 4)

In this post, we will unravel a quote by Mark Tobert mentioned by Leighton Flowers in one of his videos. Flowers did not provide the link to the quote source. He mentioned it was on the "Desiring God" website, I searched the site exhaustively, and it is possible it is there somewhere, but I could not locate it.  

However, I did eventually locate the quote, it is from the book "Suffering and the Sovereignty of God" by John Piper and Justin Taylor first printed in 2006. The quote given by Flowers was from a section written by Mark Tobert. 

I have not heard of Mark Tobert before, so I don't know his views. However, in the context of this quote, he is attempting to explain actions that occurred in a concentration camp and the brutality committed against the Jews, which caused a young man named  Elie Wiesel to throw off his faith as a result of what he observed. The fact that God allowed such evil convinced him that men must be stronger than God. The quote by Tobert is difficult to accept, but we must understand the subject he is addressing is difficult to answer. 

The first part of the quote was taken from page 42 "God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes, as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem, God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child:" the rest of the quote occurred later and is from page 47 of the book, '“The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil” (Prov. 16:4, NASB ). Flowers neglected to post the scripture references provided by the author defending his statements so I included them here. It should also be noted the author of the quote gave much explanation for the statements he puts forward which Flowers does not include. It should be understood in the context of this quote Mark Tobert also said, {". . .we need to know what Scripture says in general about God’s relationship to evil. Scripture declares that the Judge of all the earth will always do what is right (see Gen. 18:25). God is, as Moses sings, “the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just.” He is a “faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he” (Deut. 32:4, NIV). God never does evil. Page 41 “All the good that is ours in Christ”} 

Going back to the original quote given by Flowers, how could someone possibly suggest God would do such things? It seems God himself would, Isaiah Chapter 19, God is actively stirring up evil in the heart of the Egyptians. He is going to move them against each other, people are going to be killed, and families are going to be broken. As the text goes on God is going to bring about catastrophes that will create hunger and starvation. 

{Isa 19:1  An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt; and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence, and the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. 

Isa 19:2  And I will stir up Egyptians against Egyptians, and they will fight, each against another and each against his neighbor, city against city, kingdom against kingdom}.

Also, {2Sa 24:1  Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”} After inciting David against Israel, God punished David for the sin He incited him to commit. {2Sa 24:13  So Gad came to David and told him, and said to him, “Shall three years of famine come to you in your land? Or will you flee three months before your foes while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days' pestilence in your land? Now consider, and decide what answer I shall return to him who sent me.”} David chose the pestilence as his punishment and God killed 70,000 of the people of Israel, which would include women and children. {2Sa 24:15  So the LORD sent a pestilence on Israel from the morning until the appointed time. And there died of the people from Dan to Beersheba 70,000 men.}  

Again God lashes out at Isreal saying, {Amo 3:1  Hear this word that the LORD has spoken against you, O people of Israel, against the whole family that I brought up out of the land of Egypt:} then declares, {Amo 3:6  Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?} God declares if a disaster comes to a city, it will not come unless He causes it.

We could look at {1Sa 16:14  Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him. God even controls and commands harmful or evil spirits.

1Sa 16:15  And Saul's servants said to him, “Behold now, a harmful spirit from God is tormenting you.} or {Num 21:6  Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.}  We could consider, {2Ki 21:12  therefore thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: Behold, I am bringing upon Jerusalem and Judah such disaster that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle.}

In the New Testament, {Act 5:3  But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 

Act 5:4  While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 

Act 5:5  When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. 

Act 5:6  The young men rose and wrapped him up and carried him out and buried him. 

Act 5:7  After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 

Act 5:8  And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 

Act 5:9  But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 

Act 5:10  Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men came in they found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 

Act 5:11  And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.} Why did they have great fear? God was killing people!    

Needless to say, we could go on and on with God's absolute Sovereignty over His creation, yet we also find verses such as {Deu 30:19  I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,} There appears great tension throughout the Scriptures between those portions that speak of God's Sovereignty and those that speak of man's responsibility. He commands men to choose rightly and then declares He is sovereign over their choices. It is difficult for us to understand how God can control everything and man still be free to choose his own way. 

There are depts of Theological thought that dig deep into the concepts of how to understand these things. They are far beyond the scope of this blogger. Simply making distinctions between the creature and the Creator is helpful. God decrees concerning all things that come to pass are outside the confines of time and space. It was all called into being from eternity. The man then, in turn, experiences them from inside space and time as they unfold before him. All our choices are real and effectual choices that bear for us real consequences. The relation between eternal decrees and their unfolding in each of our lives is a mystery to us. The fact that man's fall is not outside the realm of God's decree has to be understood in such a way that man's choice to disobey was a real choice of which he was responsible. God was free to decree it to be, yet the man's will was free to choose and he therefore would bear the consequences of his choices. It is here we find the concept of God's will of decree and His will of command. If we omit our understanding of God's will of decree, we are left with a God who is no longer sovereign and is reacting to events of which he is not responsible. If we omit our understanding of God's will of command, we are left with man's freedom and personal volition destroyed. We must allow for both in forming our understanding or we will err on one side or the other. 

This is where people like Flowers have always erred, in an attempt to strengthen and protect man's freedom they weaken God's sovereignty. They build their theology upon those Scriptures relating to man's freedom while limiting those pertaining to God's sovereignty. The Scriptures equally confess both, therefore to remain faithful to the Scriptures we must embrace both. 

The Scriptures confirm the quotes of Mark Tobert, yet at the same time, each atrocity and sinful act engaged by the perpetrator was his own free and sinful act. The evil that was decreed from eternity originated from the sinful nature of the people involved and not from God. God's will of decree from eternity, which must come to pass of necessity, does not negate the responsibility of those who willfully disobey God's will of command in time and space fulfilling the will of decree. Flower's genuine attempt to help people understand God's goodness only confuses them when confronted by God's statements of His Sovereign acts. 

We are confronted throughout the Bible with Scriptures such as {Pro 16:33  The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.} and {Pro 19:21  Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand.} and of course {Psa 33:9  For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm. 

Psa 33:10  The LORD brings the counsel of the nations to nothing; he frustrates the plans of the peoples. 

Psa 33:11  The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the plans of his heart to all generations.

To refute these Scriptures and statements like those of Mark Tobert, Flowers references other Scriptures like,

{Jer 19:4  Because the people have forsaken me and have profaned this place by making offerings in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, 

Jer 19:5  and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind— 

Jer 19:6  therefore, behold, days are coming, declares the LORD, when this place shall no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.}

See, God did not decree everything that comes to pass, no, it didn't even enter His mind. However, when Flowers quotes Jeremiah 19:5, he uses the ESV version to quote from. I have to wonder if the reason for that is the ESV is the only version I found that translated the Hebrew word (צָוָה) as "decree". 

The KJV, ASV, ERV, GNB, ISV, and YLT all translate it as "command". The Hebrew definition from Strongs dictionary concordance is, 

H6680

צָוָה

tsâvâh

tsaw-vaw'

A primitive root; (intensively) to constitute, enjoin: - appoint, (for-) bid. (give a) charge, (give a, give in, send with) command (-er, ment), send a messenger, put, (set) in order. 

Jeremiah 19:5 is not saying God did not decree it to be from eternity (will of decree) or it most certainly would not have been. Jeremiah is saying God did not command in their law (the law of Moses) to worship in such a barbaric fashion, that it could not even enter into His mind to command such a law (will of command). When we try to avoid the concept of these two wills we find in the Bible, we begin to enter varying degrees of Open Theism. From there, we must admit God created without full knowledge of His creation. He is learning as redemptive history unfolds, that He is not omnipotent and cannot control the lives and events of people existing in the history He created. It is not He who determines the outcome of this redemptive History, but man whom God cannot control. It is from this position Elie Wiesel abandons his faith in Mark Tobert's related story above, having come to the conclusion that man was stronger than. 

We have the Scriptures where we find the description of this all-powerful and all-knowing God. We see examples of His sovereignty demonstrated throughout its pages. We hear Him proclaim to be the God that created all things and does all He pleases while accomplishing all His will. That He is presently upholding all things by the Word of His power, both good and evil. 

We also have the Scriptures where we find man doing as he pleases, disregarding God's commands, and committing unmentionable violence and horror against the innocent. This can only be reconciled when making the distinction between the (Will of Decree) and the (will of Command). Otherwise, we find ourselves arguing over things we do not understand and developing a theology that is less than it should be. May we embrace both aspects of the redemptive history seen in the pages of Scripture. 

May God bless,

David    

Sovereignty of God in Salvation (Part 3)

 

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ESV

(3)  This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,

(4)  who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

In this post, we will continue to examine 1 Timothy 2:3-4. Christians are divided as to how to understand its meaning when applied to the work of God in Salvation. Those (sometimes called Provisionists) see it as saying God's purpose in Salvation is to save every individual and God's saving grace is given to all (Provisional grace is provided for all) who will receive it. Others (sometimes called Calvinists) view God's Salvation as a Sovereign decree to a certain number of fallen sinners called the elect. Whereas God's saving grace (Effectual grace) is given to an elect number chosen before the foundation of the world to bring them to Christ. The non-elect are not restricted from coming to Christ except by their own unbelief and rebellion. Verse 4 appears to affirm the provisional grace view over the effectual grace view. 

The Calvinist tries to understand it in a particular sense when it seems to be in the general sense. One way he does this is to see the "all people" in the verse as all of a particular group, "all of the elect" not all in general.  Some approach it differently by seeing two wills demonstrated in God, a general will that is not necessarily always achieved, and a decretive will that must come to pass by necessity.  

Provisionist have their problem with certain other Scriptures such as verses similar to what we find in Ephesians. 

Ephesians 1:4-6 ESV

(4)  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love [notice he chose with a purpose, that we should be holy and blameless.]

(5)  he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, [notice it is not an arbitrary choice, it was with purpose according to His will]

(6)  to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Rev 13:8  and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 

Here it appears God's scope of Salvation is selective to a particular group chosen before the foundation of the world. Provisionists try to avoid the difficulty by asserting that the choosing before the foundation of the world is not the individual but a yet-to-be-defined group. People generally fall into the Provisionist camp because it just seems right to us that God would save everyone, or at least try. John 3:16 has also been interpreted in a way that lends to this being a popular view.  John 3:16  “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Does that not say God loves the whole world? Does whoever believes not apply to everyone? It sure sounds like it does!

But the same author who wrote Joh 3:16 also wrote Joh 6:64 three chapters later, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) John 6:65  And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” Chapter 6 tells us who the ones who believe in Chapter 3 are, the ones who were granted by the Father. This is in agreement with 2Ti 2:25  "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;" which also sheds more light on 1Ti 2:4  "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." We can see the two wills of God at work in those verses. In 1Ti 2:4 we see the general or some call it will of command where God's desire is that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and in 2Ti 2:25 the decretive will that only those who are given repentance will actually come to the acknowledgment of the truth. 

Leighton Flowers suggests that "granting" someone something does not mean they will actually do it, you are just making it possible for them to do it. However, the context and structure of the passage will not force that interpretation. In both verses, the word translated "granted" and "given" are the same Greek word {δίδωμι}. It is the same word translated as "give" in Mat 10:1  "And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction". Did Jesus actually give {δίδωμι} them authority or did He just make authority possible?

We are limited in how much Scripture we can examine in one blog post, so let's start at the beginning and make a few stops along the way. Gen 1:1  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. We need to think a little to grasp the depth of this short verse. We are only told in Chapters 1-3 things relevant to our understanding of man and his fall. We are told very little about the creation of the Angels and Heaven. We learn from Job 38 that the Angels and Heaven came into being sometime between verse 1 and verse 10. Job 38:4  “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 

Job 38:5  Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 

Job 38:6  On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 

Job 38:7  when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?  

We see from verse 7 that the Angels were singing and shouting for joy, amazed at the succeeding events of creation. Let's stretch our minds further back before the beginning. What do we have before verse 1? We know what we do not have, no Heaven, no Earth, no Angels, no space (or void), no created being. We learn from Isa 57 we have God and eternity, "Isa 57:15  For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite."

What does all this have to do with 1 Timothy 2:3-4? It is where God's plan and purpose for man began. 1Pe 1:20  "He [Christ] was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you" [It was established in eternity and then worked out in time and space.]

Eph 1:4  "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him." 

2Ti 1:9  "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"  [Take notice He saved us according to his own purpose, it was done by grace which was given to us and established Christ before the world began.]

Psa 2:7  "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." 

Luk 22:22  "And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!" 

Act 2:23  "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

Whatever God's desire for man is, clearly from these Scripture it was determined before Creation in eternity. It is well understood that one attribute of God's being is that He is all-knowing. His knowledge spans not only the present creation but time itself. Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 

Armed with this understanding, we can conclusively say, in the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, before the foundation of the world was ever established, God acted with full knowledge and comprehensive understanding of all creation from beginning to end. Regardless of how we want to interpret that fact, we are forced to acknowledge God created the world with full knowledge man would fall and the vast majority would be lost and condemned to everlasting punishment. We must also acknowledge it is that world He chose to create. 

This is why, how we view verses like 1 Timothy 2:(4) "who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." and understand the meaning correctly is so important. Leighton Flowers suggests when Calvinists speak of the elect, or as he likes to say, "flip the switch on" and God does not "flip the switch on" for all of them, they are saying God wants some people to be saved and He doesn't want other people to be saved. Flowers is masterful at twisting the Reformed doctrine of election into "God wants these people but God doesn't want those people saved doctrine." 

We know God created man with comprehensive knowledge of the fall, but can we say He wanted them to fall and be condemned? God forbid, may it never be! Or perhaps we can limit God's ability and say He could not create a man that would not fall? However, that cannot be true because that is exactly what He will do in the New Heaven and New Earth. We could limit his knowledge and say He didn't know what would happen. However, to say those things would be unfaithful to the character God revealed in Scripture.

It is foolish to say God did His best, but His best man failed. It is foolish to say creation went wrong and God had to send His Son to save as many as He could! By doing so, we charge God with a failure, make Christ plan B, and worship a God who did His best but could only achieve part of His plan. He wanted to save all, but could only save a few. Do you see why it is so important how we understand 1 Timothy 2:4? It determines what we say about God. 

We must let the Scriptures be our guide, Thomas Campbell once said,  "Where the Bible speaks; we speak; where the Bible is silent, we are silent".  If Paul tells us God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth", we must believe that's God's desire, but it must be understood in such a way it does not violate God's revelation of who He is. If Paul tells us Eph 1:4 . . . he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, and Eph 1:5 . . . "predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will", we must believe he did by the same measures. If there are two wills there we must accept that. You will ask, how can God desire all people to be saved and choose to predestinate and elect certain ones before the foundation of the world? Deu 29:29  “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. How these things work out in redemption may remain somewhat of a secret, the fact they do does not depend upon us.

For God's ultimate plan and purposes to be, it is necessary that certain things must come to pass in space and time. Mat 18:7  “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! We look at the troubles in the world and wonder how God could be in control.  Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. Mat 24:10  And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.  Mat 24:25  See, I have told you beforehand.  Matthew 24:25 declares He has told us beforehand these things must be, it is according to the Plan and Purpose of Him with whom we have to do. As you follow the pages of Scripture you begin to see the plan unfold.

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 

When God made the Angels He made myriads,  Rev 5:11  Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,  yet when God made man He made only two, "male and female he created them." If it was just men God wanted He could have created them in any number like He did the Angels. But it wasn't just men, there is a plan in place, so things must be done a certain way. There is no redemptive plan for the Angels that fell, it won't work for them for they were created in number, each being unrelated to the others. There is no headship, the sin of one angel cannot pass to another.

But with man, there were only two, Adam being the head. They were told to “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” [Gen 1:28]

Created in this fashion, Adam being the head, if he sinned, that would be passed on to his posterity. Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Having once sinned, all that came from Adam would be corrupt, he could produce nothing else. But from eternity there was a plan, 1Pe 1:19  But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20  Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, What began in eternity made our redemption possible, it is a perfect redemption which accomplishes exactly what God decreed it to do. 

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 

Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 

Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 

Rom 5:15  But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 

Rom 5:16  And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 

Rom 5:17  For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 

Rom 5:18  Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 

Rom 5:19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. That is a glorious plan, not by accident but by eternal decree.

Leighton Flowers tells a story about a Judge, in the story her son is brought before her for a crime. She loves him dearly and passionately desires him to go free and lead a normal life. However, she also desires justice and as a Judge seeing her son's guilt, must sentence him to prison. 

Flowers admits two wills are being demonstrated in this analogy. One will that her son lead a normal life, and another for justice to be served. However, he suggests it all falls apart because the Calvinist view is the Judge was the one who caused the son to commit the crime so she could punish him. That is the way Flowers views God's decree concerning Salvation. It is another twisting of Reformed doctrine to fit his narrative.

Here is where Flowers goes wrong. Job is one of the oldest recorded writings in the Bible, much can be learned from its pages. For our conversation here we will only examine one event. Satan had appeared before God to accuse Job and seek permission to test him. God grants permission and Satan precedes. Job 1:13  Now there was a day when his [Job] sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house, 

Job 1:14  and there came a messenger to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them, 

Job 1:15  and the Sabeans fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”   

Our point of interest is the Sabeans, a group large enough to kill all the servants and take Job's oxen and donkeys arrived and committed murder and theft. After this and other unfortunate happens Job's response was, Job 1:20  Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped. 

Job 1:21  And he said, “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” 

Job 1:22  In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong. 

Job, unlike Flowers, understood God's Sovereignty, Job understood nothing happens in life outside of God's decree. "The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away". Then the inspired author provides this insight, "Job 1:22  In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong." The inspired author writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit informed us Job was not wrong when he said, "the LORD has taken away". Flowers would tell us Job and the inspired writer were Calvinist and wrong.

Peter instructs the church "1Pe 3:17  For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil." That was exactly the situation we see here in Job, Peter continues in Chapter 4, "1Pe 4:12  Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you." Peter understood like Job that suffering and trials come, and they come by the will of God. Satan and evil men may be the instruments, but it all comes to pass because it is God's will. Reformed Theology suggests nothing more than what the Scripture presents to us.

We could continue with Biblical example after Biblical example demonstrating God doing exactly what Flowers says he does not do. But this post is already longer than most will want to read. A quick look at the life of Samson should suffice. God had told Israel not to take wives of other nations. That was God's will for Israel, but Samson desired a wife of the Philistines. His parents had serious concerns and tried to correct him with God's commandments. But the inspired writer states, "Jdg 14:3  But his father and mother said to him, “Is there not a woman among the daughters of your relatives, or among all our people, that you must go to take a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?" But Samson said to his father, “Get her for me, for she is right in my eyes."

Jdg 14:4  His father and mother did not know that it was from the LORD, [another will] for he was seeking an opportunity against the Philistines. At that time the Philistines ruled over Israel."

Flowers would say Samson could not be acting under the influence of or within the will of God, but he would be wrong again. Samson's sin was of the LORD according to the inspired writer. 

 London Baptist Confession (1689)

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.  

That statement explains how we are to understand the events we looked at in Job and here in Judges. It was God's will for these events to happen in time, and they were both "of the LORD". But at the same time, God did not infuse any new evil or fresh corruption into the Sabeans or Samson to bring it about. There was no violence offered to the will of the creature, nor any liberty or causes taken away. Everyone acted upon their own free desires, meaning Samson's sin as well as the Sabean's act of murder and theft originated from their own corrupt natures, God simply being Sovereign over all His creation used their sin and corruption for his own purpose and Glory, and He established to be so from the foundation of the world. We need to abandon how we think God should be and how he should act based upon what appears reasonable to us and simply let the truth of Scripture speak. 

May God bless,

David

Sovereignty of God in Salvation (Part 2) "Flower's Question"

 

Leighton Flowers, opposing the Sovereignty of God in Salvation, objecting from the provisionist perspective poses this question and suggests no Calvinist has answered it with any substance. Let's examine the question and see if there are any answers with substance. 

(Flowers) A Question for my Calvinistic Friends

When we object to the concept of divine determinism (God's Sovereign work to bring about all things whatsoever that come to pass) [ I object to his use of "divine determinism". Flowers is redefining a Biblical concept articulated in Scripture with the pagan determinism philosophy. He also only quotes a partial phrase from the Reformed Confession making it appear to say something it clearly does not. The Biblical understanding of God's sovereignty in salvation can be seen in verses such as these

(Ephesians 1:11 (ESV) 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,) (Proverbs 16:4 (ESV) 4  The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.) (Isa 14:26  This is the purpose that is purposed concerning the whole earth, and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations. Isa 14:27  For the LORD of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it?) (Dan 4:35  all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”) Flowers redefines this doctrine of God's Sovereignty and likens it to divine determinism, 

Determinism /dĭ-tûr′mə-nĭz″əm/

noun

(1) The philosophical doctrine that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision, is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.

(2) The doctrine that the will is not free, but is inevitably and invincibly determined by motives, preceding events, and natural laws.

(3)The doctrine that all actions are determined by the current state and immutable laws of the universe, with no possibility of choice. (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.) 

"Determinism is the idea that everything that happens in the world is determined completely by previously existing causes. We all know that the world runs on cause and effect. Imagine a shot in a game of pool. You hit the cue ball which then strikes another, and the movement of the balls is determined by the laws of physics. But once you’ve hit the ball, neither you nor the balls have any say in which way things turn out! Once the initial cause (you hitting the cue ball) is set in place, everything just follows along through the laws of physics." Does that sound anything like what we read in the previous Scriptures? Flower's question begins dishonestly by forming a false narrative.] 

[Flowers question continues], and you appeal to the crucifixion as your proof that God brings about all moral evil, [I see why no one has bothered to engage his question with any substance, there is no substance to the question. Flowers again redefines the Calvinist doctrine, which does not allow God to bring about moral evil. "neither is God the author of sin" Westminister Confession of Faith (1689) the other part of the Confession Flowers did not quote.] [Flowers continues], are you saying that God is sovereignly working so as to redeem the very sins He sovereignly worked to bring about? [No, that is not what the doctrine states.] Is Calvary just about god cleaning up His own mess, redeeming His own determinations? [No, that is not what the doctrine states] There is not a Reformed Confession or Calvinist doctrine that suggests God is working to bring about sin. Flowers again is redefining the Reformed doctrine of God's Sovereignty to fit his narrative. Below are doctrines stated by Reformed Confessions of Faith]

 III. 

Westminister Confession of Faith (1646)

Of God's Eternal Decree

1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11, Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27–28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33) 

St. Augustine (354-430 AD) writes in his Enchiridion: “What happens contrary to his will occurs, in a wonderful and ineffable way, not apart from his will. For it would not happen if he did not allow it. And yet he does not allow it unwillingly but willingly. But he who is good would not permit evil to be done, unless, being omnipotent, he could bring good out of evil.” [Agustine points out God may permit evil to be done but does not bring it about.]

London Baptist Confession (1689)

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

Abstract of Principles (1858)

IV. PROVIDENCE

God from eternity, decrees or permits all things that come to pass, and perpetually upholds, directs, and governs all creatures and all events; yet so as not in any wise to be the author or approver of sin nor to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures.

Calvinistic Methodists of Wales (1823)

5. Of God’s Decree.

God, from eternity, after the council of his own will, and for the manifestation and exaltation of his glorious attributes, decreed all that he would do in time and to eternity, in creation, in the government of his creatures, and in the salvation of sinners of the human race; yet so that he is not the author of sin nor constrains the will of his creature in its actions (a). The decree of God depends not in the least upon the creature nor upon the foreknowledge of God himself; on the contrary, God knows that certain things will be, because he has decreed that they should be (b). God’s decree is infinitely wise (c), and perfectly just (d); eternal (e), free (f), comprehensive (g), secret (h), gracious (I), holy (j), good (k), unchangeable (l), and effectual (m).

Flowers is asking a question about a reformed doctrine that does not exist. He uses the philosophy of determinism and gives it a divine aspect, then applies that definition to the Sovereign decree of God. However, that is not the definition offered by reformed confessions of faith. 

Flowers' understanding seems to be that God constrains the will of the creature, eliminating second causes (accidents) and the free will of men to do as they please to accomplish His purpose. Whereas the doctrine of God's divine Sovereignty as stated in the reformed confessions of faith specifically states that God accomplishes His divine decrees without doing violence to the will of the creature nor having any fellowship with the creature's sin.   

Flower's reference to the crucifixion saying, [and you appeal to the crucifixion as your proof that God brings about all moral evil] is found in Acts Chapter 4. 

Act 4:24  And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 

Act 4:25  who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, “‘Why did the Gentiles rage, and the people plot in vain? 

Act 4:26  The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed’— 

Act 4:27  for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 

Act 4:28  to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Flower's question concerning this verse is, why do Calvinists appeal to the crucifixion as their proof that God brings about all moral evil. Calvinists make no appeal from any scripture that God brings about moral evil. His question is irrelevant and dishonest. 

As to Acts Chapter 4, Luke records that Herod, Pilate, the Gentiles, and the people of Israel all did what God had pre-determined to take place. It takes place at the exact time and place God had ordained. It involved the people God had determined to use. Flowers calls this divine determinism. We have already defined determinism which has nothing to do with God's Sovereignty over His creation. 

What we do see is described in the reformed confessions, the sin involved in the crucifixion was not brought about by God, but by the people committing the sin. Being a sinner does not remove you from the Sovereign acts of God. God's infinite ability of Omnipotence and omniscient uses the sinner with his sin and the saint alike to accomplish His will and purpose, God does this without violating the "will of the creature."  As stated in the London Baptist Confession of 1689, Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree. 

That is simply stating God can accomplish his will and purpose using the sin of the sinner, and do so without violence being done to the free will of the sinner who is committed to his sin. How God accomplishes this is a mystery, but the fact He does is demonstrated in Acts Chapter 4. and throughout redemptive history. 

[Flowers continues] Appealing to God's sovereign work to ensure the redemption of sin so as to prove that God sovereignly works to bring about all the sin that was redeemed is a self-defeating argument. [Only in the manner in which Flowers re-frames the statement.] It would be tantamount to arguing that because a police department set up a sting operation to catch a notorious drug dealer, that the police department is responsible for every single intention and action of all drug dealers at all times. Proof that the police department worked in secretive ways to hide their identities, use evil intentions, and work out the circumstances in such a way that the drug dealer would do what they wanted him to do (sell drugs) at that particular moment in time does not suggest that the police are in any way responsible for all that drug dealer has done or ever will do. [Irrevelant analogy, the police department is not omnipotent nor omniscient, it is self-defeating to compare the police department to an infinite God] [Flowers continues] We celebrate and reward the actions of the police department because they are working to stop the drug activity, not because they are secretly causing all of it so as to stop some of it. Teaching that God brings about all sin [Flowers is again creating a false narrative, as you can see in the reformed confessions, that is not taught] based on how He brought about Calvary is like teaching that the police officer brings about every drug deal based on how he brought about one sting operation.

Yes, at times the scriptures do speak of God “hardening” men's hearts (Ex 7; Rm. 9), blinding them with a “spirit of stupor” (Rm. 11:8) and delaying their healing by use of parabolic language (Mk. 4:11-12, 34; Matt. 16:20), and He always does so for a redemptive good. But the reason such passages stand out so distinctly from the rest of scripture is because of their uniqueness. [They don't stand out from the rest of Scripture, they agree with and affirm the whole of Scripture concerning God's Sovereign Decree] [Flowers continues] If God worked this way in every instance these texts would make no sense. After all, what is there for God to harden, provoke, or restrain if not the autonomous will of creatures? 

[Flowers is again re-framing statements to assist in his narrative. Was Hitler as bad as he could have been? Are any sinners as bad as they could be? If God removed his restraint upon this sinful world we would be incapable of maintaining a society. His restraint upon man's sinfulness makes it possible for society and government to exist. When God removes a measure of this restraint the sinner's heart is hardened in proportion to that measure.] 

2Th 2:6  And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 2Th 2:7  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 2Th 2:8  And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 

Proverbs 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained, But happy is he who keeps the law.

Psa 19:13  Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then I shall be blameless, and innocent of great transgression. 

Psa 141:4  Do not let my heart incline to any evil, to busy myself with wicked deeds in company with men who work iniquity, and let me not eat of their delicacies! 

[Flowers continues]

If everything is under the meticulous control of God's sovereign work what is left to permit and or restrain except that which He is already controlling? Is God merely restraining something that He previously determined? Why blind eyes from seeing something they were “naturally” predetermined not to see? Why put a parabolic blind fold on the corpse like dead sinner incapable of seeing spiritual truth? These are questions many Calvinists seem unwilling to entertain at any depth. Nothing in Flowers's closing statements is relevant to any Calvinistic doctrine or Confession of faith. One example of the Calvinist doctrine of God's Sovereignty is found in Acts Chapter 27, where we read the account of Paul's shipwreck. From Galatians 1:15 we discover Paul was called from his mother's womb.  What if Paul had not wanted to serve Christ? He certainly would not have been on the ship. But the Calvinist doctrine of God's sovereignty in Salvation states He (God) calls the elect to himself, yet he does so without violating the will or doing away with 2nd causes. 

So we understand Paul is called from his mother's womb, but it would be many years later on the road to Damascus before he would be converted. He would not have been considered a likely candidate for Gospel conversion, but God is sovereign in whom He calls. Paul's life is under the meticulous control of God's sovereign work and Acts 27 is only one such example in his lifetime. 

In Acts 27 we hear the words of the Angel to Paul, "Act 27:23  For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, 

Act 27:24  and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar."

Here we discover it was God's purpose for Paul to stand before Caesar, we can now see that all the events that led up to Paul being on that ship were due to that purpose. Paul's reasoning for appealing to Caesar, those thoughts and intents were made long before in Acts 25, and the decision in the minds of Festus and Agrippa to send him to Caesar was all according to God's purpose. God was meticulously in control bringing about His purpose using the minds and reasonings of all involved, yet doing so without violating their will and understandings. Paul standing in the counsel before Festus and Agrippa was a contingent event, a second cause that brought it all about. God (in His sovereign providence) meticulously brought everything according to His purpose. 

The event itself in Acts 27 is filled with meticulous control, the storm, the direction of the wind, and the time and place of each event of each day all bringing about God's purpose. Plots were made contrary to God's purpose, yet they were foiled through predetermined events that involved the reasonings and thoughts of those in key positions. The very survival of the crew is directly attributed to the meticulous providence of God. Verse 24, "And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you.’ " When the ship broke apart, each individual had to make a decision when and where to jump, that decision would bring them to a board or piece of ship by which they could survive. All was their decision based upon their own reasoning of self-preservation, yet we understand from Scripture it was the providence of God fulfilling his purpose in all things.

This is God  Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree. 

Flowers wants to call this Calvinistic divine determinism and attribute the sin of those who would kill Paul and abandon their post as being brought about by God. Yet God had no fellowship with their sin. It is a travesty that some would deny God His Sovereign Providence. Flower's statements refuting God's meticulous control are nothing but double talk.

dou·​ble-talk ˈdə-bəl-ˌtȯk  (Marriam-Webster)

1: language that appears to be earnest and meaningful but in fact is a mixture of sense and nonsense

2: inflated, involved, and often deliberately ambiguous language

It is so commonly understood in our society that God is in control of our world, when I typed in the search engine "God is not in meticulous control cartoon" there was not a single cartoon displayed. All cartoons displayed God as in complete control of everything. God's Sovereignty over His creation is necessary to the very doctrine of God. 

Flowers states, "Traditionalists [Traditionalists is a meaningless term used in this context] believe at times throughout history God does intervene to determine some things. That is what makes these things “of God” and uniquely supernatural. We also believe God uses means similar to what some Calvinists describe in these instances. We do not believe, however, these unique divine determinations prove God’s meticulous determination of all things, especially man’s evil intentions. In fact, in every one of the instances listed above, the purpose of God’s unique intervention is clearly redemptive. I refuse to believe God is merely seeking to redeem the very evil intentions and actions that He Himself predetermined."

 

Flowers states he believes things similar to what Calvinists believe, he is forced to say that because of the Scriptural witness. Numerous times in Scripture God simply turns men wherever he pleases. (Pro 21:1  The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will.) (Dan 4:24  this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king,  Dan 4:25  that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.)  

Flowers confuses this with God's working of providence over all his creatures. Though God can as Flowers suggests at will rule the mind of men, He doesn't need to turn the heart of a king or any man to accomplish His will. He simply works within the bounds of His Providence as in the previously stated reformed confessions of faith.  (yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away).  

Flowers clarifies himself by stating, (he) unlike the Calvinist, does not believe God brings about man's evil intentions, [Neither does the Calvinist, Flowers is again being dishonest] I refer you to the Reformed Confessions. Flowers ends with double talk, suggesting God's Sovereignty in Salvation consists of God "merely seeking to redeem the very evil intentions and actions that He Himself predetermined." However, what God has actually done, is redeem man from his sinful nature, and He (God) decreed so from before the foundation of the world. 

Rev 13:8  and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. 

1Pe 1:18  knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, 

1Pe 1:19  but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. 

1Pe 1:20  He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 

1Pe 1:21  who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.  

May God bless,

David