The discussion continued for about 20 minutes, however, it all revolved around this particular statement affirming there is no evidence for the Resurrection, none, zippo! Before we address the subject of the Resurrection we need to address the statement presented by Matt. His assertion that the Gospels were written by people who only heard people say Jesus rose from the dead is an assertion made purely through his bias and speculation. The construction of his statement is framed intentionally to sway the audience in his favor. This is not to fault him, for this is a practice commonly used in rhetoric to sway opinions.
Rhetoric (noun) rhet·o·ric ˈre-tə-rik 1: the art of speaking or writing effectively: such as a: the study of principles and rules of composition formulated by critics of ancient times. b: the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion. 2 a: skill in the effective use of speech. b: a type or mode of language or speech also: insincere or grandiloquent language.
A more true construction would sound something like, "None of the Gospels make a claim to authorship, or to be written by actual eyewitnesses, they are truly anonymous. However, the authorship as we know them was assigned by the early church around the 2nd century." Now that is the simple facts and both sides can work from there. I certainly can't prove the assigned authors wrote the text, and Matt can't prove the names assigned for the past 2,000 years are incorrect. His statement can no more be proven than the assigned authors can. So his assertion as he has framed it is meaningless.
Matt's assertion that we have (quote), a "hand full of copies of copies of translations of copies of oral traditions stories . . ." is simply a false statement. It is now commonly reported that there are about 5,800 manuscripts of the NT in Greek. In addition, there are 10,000 ancient Latin manuscripts (translations of the early Greek manuscripts) and 9,300 ancient manuscripts in other languages (e.g., Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopic). The church fathers quoted nearly every verse in the NT in their writings from the 2nd and 3rd centuries. The time between the writing of the original manuscripts of the NT and their earliest copies is between 100 and 200 years. As far as ancient manuscripts go, that is an astounding volume of ancient material. All of which assign no other author than the assigned authors. Matt knows this so why he made that statement can only be understood as a dishonest use of rhetoric.
Besides the ancient manuscripts, we have records from a few ancient historians of the time that reference the event of the crucifixion of a man named Jesus. The great Roman Historian Tacitus records concerning the burning of Rome, "Therefore, to stop the rumor, Nero substituted as culprits and punished in the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for a moment, only to break out once more, not merely in Judea, the home of the disease, but in the capital itself, where all things horrible or shameful in the world collect and find a vogue." - Tacitus (55-120)Some have suggested that his statement "pernicious superstition" is a reference to the resurrection. However, there is no indication in the text that this is the case, and even if it was it would only affirm it to be a superstitious belief, and that a pernicious horrible, diseased one. We need to step back and think about what people like Matt are asking. They are asking for verifiable proof of an event that occurred over 2,000 years ago, and to do so without referencing any of the actual ancient writing that tells of the account because we don't know who wrote the ancient manuscript. Then when we can't provide it, they suggest that is proof it didn't happen. When someone references an outside source such as Tacitus or Josephus, they simply ignore it because either those sources can't be trusted or some Christian later in history edited it in. It is simply a waste of time to try and address such inquiries under such restrictions. World history is full of whole cities that existed and disappeared without a record being left in writing, yet we are supposed to present a verifiable written record concerning one man and one event without using the ancient manuscripts that exist to explain the events. I don't know of such evidence for any human event 2000 years old.
In the state of Mississippi the ancient city Cahokia, of which the name is even in doubt, had a population possibly up to 40,000 citizens around 1,000 years ago. It no longer exists and there is no written record of what happened to it or why. If we hadn't uncovered its ruins we wouldn't even know it existed. That is just the nature of ancient history, to demand such evidence for a religion of such antiquity is knowingly to ask what cannot be produced, especially if the ancient documents themselves are not admissible. It is foolish to engage in such debates, people like Matt will win it every time and they know it. My answer to how I would respond to Matt under the circumstances he presents is I have no argument, you are exactly right.
Now let's turn our attention to the Resurrection. In an article in Live Science, it is stated, "Ancient accounts tell of an important figure whose birth would be heralded by a star in the heavens, a god who would later judge the dead. He would be murdered in a betrayal by one close to him, his body hidden away though not for long, as he would return in a miraculous resurrection to begin an eternal reign in heaven. To his legions of followers, he (and his resurrection) came to symbolize the promise of eternal life. The figure, Osiris, was the supreme god in ancient Egypt, only one of many pagan gods worshipped thousands of years before the birth of Jesus. Indeed, though Jesus is currently the best-known example of a resurrected figure, he is far from the only one." - https://www.livescience.com/3479-resurrection-history-myths.html
There are many resurrection accounts recorded in ancient history, many of them indeed existing long before the Gospel account. One of the best-known accounts that is compared to the Gospels is that of Osiris mentioned above. It is an attempt to suggest the resurrection of Christ was nothing but a copy or continuation of these myths. It is interesting how rhetoric is used above to present a more compelling account. What is stated by live science is not untrue, but the actual account of the myth goes like this.
When Osiris was born, he came into the world wearing his distinctive atef crown. The crown was a symbol of Ra’s decision to have Osiris succeed his father as king. After becoming King and civilizing Egypt, Osiris embarked on an expedition to introduce the world to wheat, barley, and agriculture. Before leaving, he appointed his sister/wife Isis to rule in his absence.Osiris’s younger brother Set was jealous of his brother’s achievements and sought to assassinate him. Working in secret, Set took precise measurements of Osiris’s body and devised an incredibly ornate box to match them. Set presented the box at a party, telling partygoers that whoever fit in the box could keep it. Each guest tried the box in turn, only to find it did not quite fit. Finally, Osiris laid down in it and found he fit perfectly.
As soon as the king had laid down, Set and his conspirators nailed the lid shut and sealed the box with molten lead. As Osiris suffocated to death, the conspirators tossed the chest into the Nile and watched it float out to sea. When Osiris washed ashore at Byblos, a great tree grew around his chest. They cut the tree down and unwittingly took a section containing Osiris back to the palace. Isis obtained access to Osiris’s entombed body, once Isis received Osiris’s body, the wave of grief she experienced was so powerful that it killed one of the monarchs’ children.
Isis returned home with Osiris’s body and was able to revive him (resurrection) long enough to impregnate herself with the god Horus. Set discovered his body while on a moonlit boar hunt, tore it into 14 pieces, and scattered its parts about Egypt himself. Isis once again set out to find her wayward husband and managed to collect 13 of the pieces. His penis, the 14th part, had been eaten by an alligator and because of this, he was never able to live in the land of the living again. Osiris instead arrived in Duat, the Egyptian underworld. There he served as lord of the dead, judging those who sought to follow him into the afterlife. Wow! It would certainly take a skilled use of rhetoric to turn that into the Gospel account! (Sarcasm)
I can't give Matt his answers, nor does that concern me. The Gospel account is not about proving the facts of an event that happened 2,000 years ago. It's about my own conscience and what I know about myself. I don't have a need for an afterlife, I am perfectly content to pass into nothingness when this one is over. Mark Twain is quoted saying, “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain.
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